{"id":2946,"date":"2011-09-05T20:02:47","date_gmt":"2011-09-06T00:02:47","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/orbittrap.ca\/?p=2946"},"modified":"2011-09-06T00:35:27","modified_gmt":"2011-09-06T04:35:27","slug":"more-manifesto-retorting","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/orbittrap.ca\/?p=2946","title":{"rendered":"More Manifesto Retorting"},"content":{"rendered":"

Some time has now passed since Tim posted his thoughts<\/a> on "The Fractal Art Manifesto" — basically arguing that Kerry Mitchell’s document glorifies the artist’s role and downplays the computer’s contribution. Mitchell, in a cut-and-paste epic-length response, half of which was merely quoting Tim’s original post, rebutted — and then called in reinforcements from the Ultra Fractal Mailing List<\/a>. A flash mob, virtual torches and pitchforks in hand, quickly gathered and — surprise!! — supported Mitchell en masse<\/em>. Mitchell then claimed<\/a> that I "lowered the discourse" in my follow-up post and wondered if OT would ever get around to addressing his "relevant points."<\/p>\n

OT, of course, has no obligation to respond to comments. Comments, in fact, are responses to our "relevant points." Tim already said what he had to say about Mitchell’s manifesto, and Mitchell (and accomplices) had their chance to respond. OT’s readers, presumably, can now read both sets of views for themselves and draw their own conclusions.<\/p>\n

In the meantime, I’ve been thinking for over a week as to how I’d like to respond, and my views haven’t really changed from my last post<\/a> when I said that<\/p>\n

\n

Very few of the protesters actually engage with Tim’s expressed observations. The gist of most of the comments fall into 1) I disagree without showing any supporting evidence, 2) You’re a fool (or variation of that insult), 3) I am an artist because see here’s my art I made stuck somewhere on Fractalbook, or 4) some variation of the “art is in the eye of the beholder” platitude (which apparently means that no one, especially Orbit Trap, can ever say anything about art at all).<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Tim laid out, in a series of six posts, an exhaustive treatise on why fractal art needs a rigorous do-over. He was quite specific in his claims, questions, and examples. Among them:<\/p>\n

–Why has fractal art failed to produce recognized masterworks, like the Mona Lisa<\/em>, found in other artistic disciplines?
\n –Interacting with fractals is a more creative experience than is presenting them in a static format.
\n –What fractal "artists" produce are "really the results of publicly owned, mathematical formulas."
\n–You can’t make art with fractals because "fractals don’t tell stories because they don’t speak any of the visual languages, that being: the human form and gesture<\/em>, or landscape<\/em>."
\n–Fractals and photography cannot be seen a comparable art forms because "photography has the richly expressive world of real life to draw on and that makes all the difference."
\n–You cannot draw with fractals. You can only enhance them, and "the creative scope gained from such features doesn’t make up for the limitations that fractal imagery already imposes."
\n–Fractals are "parameter art" that is "rigidly deterministic and we interact with them only in those aspects of which the parameters are adjustable." Therefore, "working solely with parameters is also an aspect of fractal art that limits its creativity and homogenizes its style."
\n–Fractal artists have no identifiable styles. Why? "Because they don’t post-process their work [thus creating "pixel art"] and avail themselves of the thousands of weird and not so weird graphical effects and filters that transform images much differently than the standard ways fractal programs do."
\n–Consequently: "Pixel art is a natural extension of fractal art for the graphically creative, while parameter art is satisfying only to those who are technically creative."
\n–Unless you post-process, you are merely a technician. "Artists crave novelty and are inherently drawn to create; and ‘to create’ means to make new things, not polish the old stuff up or tweak to perfection imagery that lacked style in the first place and only possesses technical merit.  Fractal programs are the comfy home of the technical ‘artist’."
\n–Then Tim answers his opening question: "I believe the reason why fractal art has failed to attract any serious artists or art talent is because any reasonably skilled artist can see how rigidly deterministic the process of creating fractal art is."<\/p>\n

There’s much more, of course, but I’ve encapsulated enough to make my point. Which is: Did any of the commenters ever get around to addressing any of these claims — addressing them and refuting them with the same breadth and depth that Tim argued them?<\/p>\n

It is my belief that they did not.<\/p>\n

~\/~<\/p>\n

So, what did they say? Here’s a sampling.<\/p>\n

LadyGrey<\/a> asks:<\/p>\n

\n

Isn’t everything we perceive a “geometric construction” from the macro right down to micro level?<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

To a physicist, maybe. To the rest of us, no. I’ve yet to see, say, a newborn infant that looks exactly like a Menger sponge<\/a>. <\/p>\n

Elaine<\/a> makes a mistake common to many of the commenters who, incomprehensibly, believe that expressed feelings or stated opinions hold the same status as facts. She says:<\/p>\n

\n

Design and ornamentation are still art. Saying that someone is wrong for calling something art in their own perspective is the same as telling someone their opinion is wrong.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

I put up an OT post<\/a> two years ago explaining why lovely ornamentation is not automatically art. And is Elaine suggesting that no expressed opinion, however farfetched, can ever be considered wrong? So if I express an opinion that Sarah Palin rode dinosaurs<\/a> sidesaddle 6,000 years ago when the earth was flat, no one can question my perspective because "opinions are in the eye of the beholder"?<\/p>\n

Madelon Wilson<\/a> says:<\/p>\n

\n

I love making my fractal flowers, and in that sense, I have mastered that form within the realm of fractals.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Tim already explained why such an accomplishment is more technical than artistic.<\/p>\n

Paula Nyman<\/a> says that<\/p>\n

\n

Yes, the computer does the rendering but the artist has to input so much to really make it an outstanding piece.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

but without explaining away or accounting for Tim’s points about the deterministic nature of "parameter art" and its inherently homogenized style.<\/p>\n

Buddha Kat<\/a> wants to know if we’re artists and can she see some of our "works of art" (even though links for other sites of OT’s contributors have clearly been available on the blog since its beginning) and then proclaims that<\/p>\n

\n

but no one has the right to tell me I am wrong to describe\/define what I consider to be art, art…<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

because<\/p>\n

\n

artists have feelings too…<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

although Buddha Kat doesn’t seem to mind hurting our feelings with the insults she sprinkles throughout her comments. Since she wants to see our art, let’s have a quick look at hers:<\/p>\n

\"CrossdRoad<\/a><\/p>\n

CrossRoad<\/em> by buddhakat9 <\/p>\n

\"Alelujah<\/a><\/p>\n

Alelujah<\/em> by buddhakat9 <\/p>\n

Although, according to Buddha Kat, I have no right to "describe\/define" anything at all, I’ll risk venturing an opinion (which Elaine claims is "in the eye of the beholder" anyways). The two images above, made with different programs (according to their creator), illustrate Tim’s claims about "parameter art" being prone to rigid determinism, if not exhaustion. Moreover, I do not think these particular works rise to the level of art. They are ornamentation — decorative (and common) fractal forms that, in my view, are not even especially well crafted.<\/p>\n

As for Mitchell himself, let’s look at several "relevant points." Here he is on why all fractals look alike:<\/p>\n

\n

I don’t argue that there’s a lot of similarity in images created with the same program, but I do argue with the idea of that being inherent in the process. The application of paint to canvas is an inherently limited process, but yet, artists have found ways to communication thought and emotion through their paintings. Communication requires a receiver, so perhaps, over the hundreds of years that folks have been painting, viewers have learned how to become effective receivers of the messages that the painters were sending.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

But Mitchell has turned around the process. Painters are free to put whatever visions their skills can transcribe to the canvas. The canvas itself does not restrict the painter to a limited number of visions. What Mitchell is describing is more analogous to Tim’s outline of "pixel art" — not to "parameter art." And did humans really need "hundreds of years" to receive the communications of cave paintings? Or did those stick figures with spears chasing an animal shape look like a hunt from the moment they dried? But, in contrast, what thought, exactly, is being received here<\/p>\n

\"Untitled<\/a> <\/p>\n

Untitled (Test 3)<\/em> by Kerry Mitchell <\/p>\n

other than, at best, an aesthetic response to viewing a decorative object? Mitchell has yet to make a convincing case that the "organized imagery" of fractals can be just as meaningful as either painting or photography.<\/p>\n

Mitchell goes on to equate fractals with photography because "artists" in both examples "capture a scene." But a scene captured by Ansel Adams<\/a> (one of Mitchell’s favorite examples) is generally of a recognizable facet of nature. What, though, is the scene captured in Mitchell’s image above? That’s what Tim meant when he noted that Mitchell appropriated other disciplines, like painting and photography, and compared them to fractals "only in very general terms so that they will be broad enough to qualify fractals for membership." Mitchell has shown only spacious similarities (like "capturing a scene") but never demonstrates that fractals (parameter art) deliberately use the elements of design in ways that painting and photography (and pixel art) can and do.<\/p>\n

~\/~<\/p>\n

Mitchell also accused me of "lowering the discourse" with an analogy that the UF troopers rushing in to prop up Mitchell were like dogs following the instructions of their master. He said:<\/p>\n

\n

What’s next? “Yo mama’s so fat…” Or maybe, you’ll reach the pinnacle of internet discussion and just call us all (Fractal)Nazis.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

In the end, I think it was his side that went down that road. Here’s Cornelia Yoder<\/a> bottoming out the discourse on the UF List:<\/p>\n

\n

Re: [ultrafractal] The Fractal Art Manifesto Revisited
\n From: Cornelia Yoder <yodercm@earthlink.net>
\n To: Ultra Fractal Mailing List <ultrafractal@list.ultrafractal.com><\/p>\n

Kerry, there is a certain class of people in this world who cannot create anything themselves, so they try to make themselves feel important by tearing down what others create. They can then feel more powerful than those who do the creating. Their value system behaves as if blowing up a building was of more value to the world than building it. Since they have no self-worth themselves, they have to try to destroy something to prove their power over those who can and do create.<\/p>\n

People like that are not convincible of anything. Because they cannot create anything worthwhile, they have to destroy. Comments on that post only give them more to tear at. Ignoring them is (in my humble opinion) the most powerful thing you can do to shut people like that down – sort of like not giving terrorists free time on TV. Arguing with them only encourages them.<\/p>\n

The Fractal Art Manifesto was a brilliant piece of writing that has stood the test of time, at least so far. It doesn’t need defense against idiots who (1) obviously don’t even understand it, and (2) distort carefully selected portions of it.<\/p>\n

When someone who can create really good fractal art and sell it or get it hung in a serious art gallery critiques the FAM, I’ll read that person’s comments. But when someone who has never created anything worth looking at tries to drag others down to their level …. well ….<\/p>\n

Everyone here should read the FAM, but imagine if no one ever read the OT blog, how long would they keep writing it?<\/p>\n

Cheers,
\n Cornelia <\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

That’s right. We’re worse than Nazis. We’re terrorists. Throw us in the same police line-up with Timothy McVeigh and Osama bin Laden. No difference.<\/p>\n

We don’t create anything? Like establishing this blog, running it for five years, without advertising, without self-promoting our own work, and in the face of "lowered discourse" like this<\/p>\n

The Orbit Trap bloggers are
\n (a)<\/a> insane
\n (b)<\/a> retards
\n (c)<\/a> fucking morons
\n (d) terrorists\n <\/p>\n

is not creating something worthwhile? Personally, I’m not…well…"convincible." <\/p>\n

~\/~<\/p>\n

Oh. Incidentally. I’ve had a few shows in "serious art galleries" — for whatever that’s worth. And we both manage to find the time to create our own artwork, too — that is, in between escapades like dragging others down to our own level and blowing up buildings. <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Some time has now passed since Tim posted his thoughts on "The Fractal Art Manifesto" — basically arguing that Kerry Mitchell’s document glorifies the artist’s role and downplays the computer’s contribution. Mitchell, in a cut-and-paste epic-length response, half of which was merely quoting Tim’s original post, rebutted — and then called in reinforcements from the … Continue reading →<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":3147,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2946","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/orbittrap.ca\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/09\/test3_kerrymitchell.jpg?fit=450%2C338","jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":2934,"url":"http:\/\/orbittrap.ca\/?p=2934","url_meta":{"origin":2946,"position":0},"title":"Speak, Fractalbookers!","author":"cruelanimal","date":"27 August, 2011","format":false,"excerpt":"How dare you? Really, really, really... [Image seen here.] It seems a flash mob of Fractalbookers has lowered the drawbridge and surged out of their virtual fortress. Upon hearing Kerry Mitchell's clarion call on the UF List to defend his sacred manifesto (and legacy?), they've amassed in OT's basement to\u2026","rel":"","context":"With 7 comments","block_context":{"text":"With 7 comments","link":"http:\/\/orbittrap.ca\/?p=2934#comments"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/orbittrap.ca\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/speakfractalbookers.jpg?fit=450%2C315&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":361,"url":"http:\/\/orbittrap.ca\/?p=361","url_meta":{"origin":2946,"position":1},"title":"Short Takes: What I Like","author":"cruelanimal","date":"18 January, 2009","format":false,"excerpt":"Orbit Trap recently passed 100,000 hits. Tim and I would like thank all of our readers for your ongoing support (or lack thereof), and we both look forward to exploring fractal art \"to its hiding place,\" as Dr. Frankenstein says, in 2009. I thought I'd begin the new year by\u2026","rel":"","context":"With 2 comments","block_context":{"text":"With 2 comments","link":"http:\/\/orbittrap.ca\/?p=361#comments"},"img":{"alt_text":"Sky Bolts by Vicky Brago-Mitchell","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/orbittrap.ca\/wp-content\/uploads\/2009\/01\/skybolts_vickybragomitchell.jpg?fit=450%2C338&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":2889,"url":"http:\/\/orbittrap.ca\/?p=2889","url_meta":{"origin":2946,"position":2},"title":"The Fractal Art Manifesto Revisited","author":"Tim","date":"25 August, 2011","format":false,"excerpt":"While it may not be as well known today as it has been in the past, The Fractal Art Manifesto, written back in 1999 by Kerry Mitchell, is one of the very few attempts to formally define fractal art.\u00a0 If you visit the Wikipedia page for Fractal Art, you'll see\u2026","rel":"","context":"With 15 comments","block_context":{"text":"With 15 comments","link":"http:\/\/orbittrap.ca\/?p=2889#comments"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/orbittrap.ca\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/uflist04.png?fit=551%2C258&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/orbittrap.ca\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/uflist04.png?fit=551%2C258&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/orbittrap.ca\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/08\/uflist04.png?fit=551%2C258&resize=525%2C300 1.5x"},"classes":[]},{"id":2781,"url":"http:\/\/orbittrap.ca\/?p=2781","url_meta":{"origin":2946,"position":3},"title":"Is the 2011 BMFAC Accepting Entries from All Artistic Mediums?","author":"cruelanimal","date":"18 July, 2011","format":false,"excerpt":"Was this object made with fractal hardware? Y by Mark Wallinger. Photograph seen here. Fractal art is a fractal look and doesn\u2019t have to be something rendered from computing a fractal algorithm. --Tim Hodkinson, Orbit Trap Two remarks have caught my attention this week. The first was baffling but exhilarating.\u2026","rel":"","context":"With 4 comments","block_context":{"text":"With 4 comments","link":"http:\/\/orbittrap.ca\/?p=2781#comments"},"img":{"alt_text":"BMFAC Judging Panel","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/orbittrap.ca\/wp-content\/uploads\/2011\/07\/BMFACJudgingPanel.jpg?fit=450%2C298&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200},"classes":[]},{"id":308,"url":"http:\/\/orbittrap.ca\/?p=308","url_meta":{"origin":2946,"position":4},"title":"Kudos to Kerry","author":"Tim","date":"8 May, 2008","format":false,"excerpt":"We're starting a new weekly feature here on Orbit Trap. 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